Daniel Satinsky: That was the end of the business stuff. The 1998 financial crisis blew you out of Russia.
David Edick: Yeah. I was left owed a lot of money. And I saw what happened. And my interest was I like investment banking, old school stuff. You connect money with ideas and people. No use for me anymore. But I watched the West, the U.S.—and we had developed some curious contacts out of the U.S. Treasury who were helping former Soviet and former Russian bigwigs stay out of trouble, help them manage their privatized piles, so I began to get an understanding that there was more going on than met the eye. And when the U.S. and the IMF shoveled in I think it’s $4 billion—small money in today’s framework, at the time it was quite a bit—helped the Russians in the August crisis, and the money went out the door, I mean, instantly. It left. It was privatized and it was just…well, I’m trying not to use four letter words in this conversation. But I was just completely outraged and for a year—
Daniel Satinsky: So, you think they knew that putting that money in that they were actually supporting certain people within the Russian economic and political structure?
David Edick: There may have been some people. I think the level of naïveté here was boundless. I was in a line to get a changed Aeroflot ticket, and when I go to—I’m living in Vladivostok, and I go to the Aeroflot office, and I live like everybody else. And if you wear a suit and tie, well—[laughs]—you’re an idiot.
Daniel Satinsky: You’re a target.
David Edick: Well, a target, too. And it’s just like…it just was inappropriate, okay. The guy in front of me is a Westerner, he’s American, he’s a consultant, and he’s got his interpreter with him, and he’s going on and on and on about what an awful place this is, how nobody knows anything, and that he was such a fool to be taking these contracts with these aid agencies. And I just stood there and listened to him. I never spoke a word with him and never let on that I was an American, but I stood there behind him in the line, and in shock and disgust because he had no business being there. He was wasting everybody’s money and time. And here I was trying to…people that we had on staff, they saw the hope, too. I mean, it was about hope. It was about building a future. We had long gotten past the point where it’s going to be some sort of lucky shock.
Just to come back to the San Diego-Vladivostok thing for a moment, it became a commercial thing. People’s involvement, people’s attraction to the opening of Russia became a business opportunity, a get rich opportunity. At least that was the narrative that people told themselves. And when that faded rather quickly people’s interest faded just as quickly, and the numbers of people within the San Diego-Vladivostok program faded. I’m past president there, got seven years. I’m typecast here in San Diego with Sister Cities and with the Russia connection with Vladivostok. It was…there were a limited number of people who really stuck around, who were in it for the long haul. And I think that from the business standpoint, from the aid programs, we didn’t put enough money in. It should have been ten times as much with the understanding that half of it would get lost or stolen. But I learned a ton.
Daniel Satinsky: So, back to the San Diego Sister City. Does it still exist?
David Edick: It still exists.
Daniel Satinsky: Does it hold meetings or events?
David Edick: Meetings. It is now a shadow of itself. It’s a small group. And actually, we’re looking at holding a 30th anniversary gathering in September, along with our partners in Vlad[ivostok], who are far more organized now. This is a warning. I’m telling you; this is a warning. We are in big doodoo here. We’re 20 years—20 years have passed since the last time Americans checked in abroad, and we’re slow, we’re slow, we’re slow. And the Russians survived, and they have their own problems, and there are buckets of them. They are clicking, it’s fresh. Well, I’m going to leave that.
Coming back to the business part. I was in the food business and thought that I was representing the American tradition of a big food supplier. Our Russian customers had ruthless tastes. They want natural products. And that predated the move here in the United States to natural products. What we came to sell in Russia was food chemistry, and the Russians wanted none of it. They were like no. I mean, we have no money, so we’ll kind of struggle along with this, but what they wanted was a very simple list of ingredients. Less was more. No chemicals. So, I learned a lot about how to listen to customers, that running a business was so much more involved than making money.
Daniel Satinsky: Yeah. And that lesson, how does that get conveyed to anybody? Or is that—I’m just curious about how you feel about that. My book is not going to be a Harvard Business School case or something in which there are lessons drawn from it or something, but in some aspects of what you’re saying here, this is a learning-teaching experience. Anyway, I don’t know where to go with that, but I’m curious about it.
But I think—let me go back to the other thing, which is what I want to explore with you a little bit more, is okay, so in the Soviet times Americans are incredibly curious about the Soviet Union, and these space bridges, including ones with Vladimir Pozner and Phil Donohue, there was one with Peter Jennings and members of Congress and members of the Supreme Soviet, I mean, incredible amount of public interest in each other. And this move, which later sort of led to the business, also had a public interest driver from it. And now, with hugely improved means of communication, there’s virtually no interest, at least among Americans, in what life is like in Russia or what Russians think. I think that that’s just amazing to me the more I see the level of enthusiasm and drive from ordinary people in this earlier period. And I don’t know what to make of it. I just know that I see it. And I don’t know if you’ve thought about that at all.
David Edick: Yeah, I think about it a lot. We’re a navy town still, Third Fleet space here, and I have friends, flag officers retired, and still very much in the game. But also, in the public. It was up until two, I think two years ago San Diego-Vladivostok was very active in hosting Open World delegations. I’ve personally organized and executed 15 delegations.
Daniel Satinsky: Wow.
David Edick: And we’ve got a lot to offer here in San Diego, and people are excited and interested, to a point. It’s like their lives are so dense or preoccupied they enjoy something new, something exotic, and oh yeah, and then after the meetings are over, the delegation’s gone, after a week it goes back to the way it was, just heals back up again. There’s deadening. And I have done public presentations to universities and programs here. I’m past president of the World Affairs Council here in San Diego. Turned the program around here.
And while Russia remains…it has morphed into a Cold War narrative that people, older people, our generation and older are comfortable, which is super sad. The part that disturbs me and annoys me is at the, say within the leadership in the navy. They will come around and make their presentations, and when it comes to Russia, they don’t have a clue what they’re talking about, and they’re trading on their stars, and I don’t like that. I don’t like that. And if you are commanding young men and women in the field, one of the oldest rules of the game is know your opponent and know yourself. And this closed…the minds here have closed. We’d have to start fresh on this one.
But it is super important because we’re headed into some so dangerous waters now. All of us are. The Russians, you know, Putin and his guys, they’re killing the commercial culture in Russia. If they don’t get property rights figured out, that’s going to be where the explosion comes.
Daniel Satinsky: Well, let me, but I want to go back a little bit. So, I know, so now talking to you I know there is a San Diego-Vladivostok Sister City that’s in existence, much reduced activity, but still in existence. I know that Burlington, Vermont and Yaroslavl sister city exists, actually fairly active exchange between the two cities. I know in Minneapolis there’s a Russian business and cultural association, and they have been putting on webinars during this pandemic. And I don’t know if there are others. So, there are individual places which don’t know each other, right? There’s no sense that…I mean, you didn’t know the people in Minneapolis, for instance.
David Edick: Correct.
Daniel Satinsky: And the fact is that someone in Minneapolis could put on a webinar with someone from Siberia, which they did, or a program on the German Volga, the Germans in the Volga region, and that could be done nationally because we’re talking about Zoom. And you could be doing a program that was up nationally. But if that network gets rebuilt, there’s at least some information exchange channels.
And I’m not—this is separate from the book. Because I was president of the U.S.-Russia Chamber of Commerce of New England for many years, 20. And we are defunct, we’re out of business, because there’s no business to support it. So, we’re officially disbanded. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t still have that interest. So, at some point, aside from the book, I may want to try to make people aware of each other to see if there’s any synergies that can rebuild some channels of communication and exchange that we can all feel genuine because they’re arising not out of the media, and not out of the Russia experts who all have a bone to pick or chew or promote. So, anyway. Do you know of other active sister city organizations?
David Edick: Yeah, the group in Portland. The Portland-Khabarovsk. They’ve got a good group there. And they’re much more active than San Diego. We share some people connections in that, San Diego and Portland. So, they’re well focused on—and water issues are a central theme for them, the environment and water. They’ve been able to find something to work with. I tried to do the same here using science, ocean sciences. We just, we didn’t get traction. Yeah, at Scripps Institution of Oceanography and others. People will talk, but the empire building, money, money, money. money. Who’s bringing the money.
There is still interest that can be networked. A little resources would help. Hope is a…my Russian guys, hope—hope dies last.
Daniel Satinsky: Yes, I know that. Right. What is it in Russian? Nadezhda umirayet posledney, right.
David Edick: My Russian is corroded. But hey, you know, I am…it’s a weird thing. I have this expertise, and it’s not worth a damn here. And that’s really—you know, is the world a better place. I remember the 1990, 1992, ’93—’92-’93 is when it became a nightmare for the Russians. And there’s no awareness here of what that was. And I have tried to keep people updated on—and this is even to the highest levels—keep people updated on what is happening structurally in Russia, where Russia is going, what Russians are doing, what’s working, what’s not working. From an analytical point of view. Like I’m walking into a room, a dozen investment bankers, and we have to be focused, and bullshit doesn’t cut it. You can do it once and you never come back.
So, I’m just calling it as I see it, and I’m looking to learn every day that I get up. And the last couple years people aren’t listening. They’ve got it all figured out. They’ve bought into a narrative. And these narratives, this is where the whole world is going. And this is part of why I’m stepping back, is where this is going to take us in a few years, and how do I position my family and myself in a world that peace is adrift in a big way. A big way. So, it’s been a pleasure to know about you and the work that you’ve stepped into here. I think it’s great that you are writing this book on this topic. And if there’s anything I can do to help you out…
Daniel Satinsky: I appreciate it. Look, you’re a combination of practical business person as well as a thoughtful and analytic person, so I have enjoyed the conversation.