Lizbeth Hasse: Okay. I met them at Henry Dakin’s center in San Francisco, and they were very upset about a dam that was being built across the Baltic that was going to block part of the Baltic just outside of St. Petersburg and the environmental effects of it, and they wanted to try to have a SpaceBridge about environmental activism and how it’s done. And I organized the studio audiences for both sides.
Here we had some pretty prominent people in — we had prominent local ecologists involved in the San Francisco Bay such as the Baykeeper and a number of local, and we also had David Brewer on it, and the guy who started Earth Island, and Sierra Club head at the time, just a pretty powerful group on our side. And on their side, they got together the activists and citizens of St. Petersburg as well as the people involved in the construction of the dam, so they had a balanced side on their side. And that was an interesting effort to coordinate the SpaceBridge. I think what happened was… Internews had done some SpaceBridges at that time.
Evelyn Messinger, you know her.
Daniel Satinsky: Yeah, I interviewed Evelyn. Actually, that’s how I…she referred me to you.
Lizbeth Hasse: She and Kim Spencer asked me, you know, maybe — I asked them if they wanted to do this with me and they said no, you can probably do it. I think they were too busy and the environmental thing wasn’t right up their angle, but they introduced me to some satellite guys, they helped me out. And I did it with the local NBC station here in San Francisco. And i was supposed to organize it with a guy named Leonid Zolotarevsky in Moscow, who was the head of the international department at the national television, and he wanted to do it out of Moscow.
And I said well, you know, I’ve been talking to all these people in Leningrad, and they really wanted to it in Leningrad, that’s where the problem is. But he said, you know, it should be Moscow, and blah-blah-blah, you know, the whole central thing. And I was supposed to coordinate with Leningrad. He said, well, there’s no airplane flights there now, they’re all filled up, and i can’t get you a hotel in Leningrad, and I think we should just coordinate from Moscow.
And I did something that I—I don’t know if I would do it today—but I just said I think I can go there myself. So I rented a car, not knowing you’re not supposed to drive outside a certain part, so I just rented the car and I drove to Leningrad, and I met with the people, and they said they could do it. And then I drove back, and I met with Zolotarevsky, and I said you know, I met with the people, and they can do this, and this is what they do, and this is who would host. And he said well, listen, I don’t know anybody who ever drove to Leningrad, so you can do it.
Daniel Satinsky: [
Laughs.] How did you rent a car in 1990?
Lizbeth Hasse: I just went to the fancy hotel there and rented a car. And nobody asked me where I was going to take it. I didn’t know I had to tell them I was going to drive out of the Moscow area, and I just —
Daniel Satinsky: You just got a roadmap and followed it?
Lizbeth Hasse: Yeah. And it’s just a straight road, anyway. You know, but I didn’t really know the political, legal restrictions, really, until I met a couple out of the consulate there who said well, we can’t travel anywhere off this particular —
Daniel Satinsky: Right. But they had special rules.
Lizbeth Hasse: Oh, yeah. No, they had special rules —
Daniel Satinsky: And the Soviet diplomats had the same rules in the U.S. There was only restricted areas they could visit. But anyway. So this is still Soviet times, right?
Lizbeth Hasse: This is still Soviet times. And, you know, I mean, things were pretty easy to deal with in Soviet times. I mean, there was the Soviet — there was a mentality that was old-fashioned that you dealt with, the naysaying and stuff, and then there were a lot of people who were just excited to try something new, the younger people, or business people, or some of the bureaucrats, so there were a lot of opportunities and a lot of sense of goodwill. And then I guess… You know, during this time most of my contacts are in the media, film thing. I got a lot of invitations to various republics. I think I’ve been to all of them now except for Turkmenistan.
Daniel Satinsky: Turkmenistan. [
Laughs.]
Lizbeth Hasse: Yeah. And I went there, you know, working on legal projects, civil law projects, talking about intellectual property laws mostly and media stuff.
Daniel Satinsky: And you were being paid by local people, or you were getting USAID money, or how were you doing this?
Lizbeth Hasse: I got USAID — actually, it was pre-USAID. What was that called? You know what it was. Anyway. The incarnation before they put them inside the State Department. I had that money. I had been a Fulbright in ’86 and ’87 in France and had a lot of contacts in the State Department as a result. They’d sent me, actually, way back then to do a lot of work in Francophone Africa.
And I had invitations, mostly invitations from the filmmakers’ unions, and they would pay for just coming.
Daniel Satinsky: Did you ever license any films in that Soviet period?
Lizbeth Hasse: I worked on some…yes, I did. I worked on some contracts for people putting their stuff in…out of Mosfilm
* for film festivals and also some television contracts. I still do that, but it’s a different—now it’s for individuals and for production companies, permissions for things and stuff. In fact, I’m working on one right now. So yes. I also…let me see, I was thinking.
Through the media stuff I organized…I’m trying to think of how this happened. Oh, I met a lawyer in Leningrad who was helpful with some of the Heart to Heart stuff and invited me to speak a few times with his faculty, and he was interested in speech issues and communications and things. And we put together, or he asked me to put together and make him my co-director of a conference, a multi-day conference in Novgorod, out of which a lot of independent or trying to be independent film, TV companies came, and smaller TV companies from different regions and republics came to that. We had about close to 200 companies that came to that conference.
And they formed an organization they called the Independent Broadcasting Association, something like that. It doesn’t exist anymore, but they did form that. I brought along with me a producer that I knew from France, and he put together some French professionals, too, because I didn’t want it to be U.S.-Soviet. So we had a German and a Finnish guy, and this group from France, and our American group, and these people from all over the Soviet Union. I think it was a pretty powerful three or four days.
Daniel Satinsky: Yeah, that’s, I mean, what’s interesting is to see how much activity there was before the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The citizen activity was bubbling up, so to speak, right?
Lizbeth Hasse: Yeah. Oh, there was a lot, yeah. Somehow, I think my activity was more intense during that time than afterwards.
Daniel Satinsky: Really? What do you mean?
Lizbeth Hasse: I don’t know. I mean, maybe it was just my own, the course of my own work and stuff, and so many trips, and after a while you’re always in a state of jet lag, and you have to start to be a little more judicious about your time and not go more than once a month and, you know. So that happened.
Daniel Satinsky: And you were going that often a lot because of interest as much as you were making money doing this — you were making some, but this was —
Lizbeth Hasse: Yeah, I didn’t make a lot of money. I spent money. But there were jobs. I mean, you know, Hal Morgan and his folks paid me, and I got…certainly didn’t…you know, people paid expenses, and then I would get jobs out of stuff, but most of the money came from the American side. And even with the Heart to Heart stuff, which obviously was a nonprofit, that was always funded from the American side. There was not a lot of sense of charitable funding or the notion of it in the Soviet Union, although people gave enormous amounts of time, and cars, and food, and all that, but all the funding was from the American side.
Daniel Satinsky: From the American side, yeah, yeah. But still a lot was going on. There was a lot of contact in that period. Much more than anyone would have thought by the notion of the iron curtain, and…
Lizbeth Hasse: There was enormous, yeah. And then I was asked to, invited by Michael and Dulce Murphy to be on their Track II program. Have you spoken to them?
So, Track II was a great place to meet people, too. Abel Aganbegyan was on the board for a while, and they brought Yeltsin over on his first trip to the United States.
Daniel Satinsky: Is the famous grocery store in Texas the visit?
Lizbeth Hasse: Yeah. And, you know, but those are little flashpoints. But they’ve had steady work. They developed the library for the psychology department at University of Moscow. They’ve had some very steady, long-term projects and relationships. And I did meet people, and I introduced Davlat Khudonazarov to that group, and he joined their advisory board. Oh, I also work with a number of literary people who had publishing issues and publishing deals in the United States, including Viktor Yerofeyev. I don’t know if that name means anything to you. He was a bestselling novelist for a while from there, wrote “Russian Beauty.” And he also joined the advisory part of Track II. And I did meet other literary folks through him. And so that’s been a little business stable, too.
I had a business project for a company in Oakland called Mayer Laboratories. We went to Siberia quite a few times. Mayer Laboratories distributes condoms, and they have their own brand. The brand they developed here was called Kimono. And they had decided that they wanted to try to manufacture condoms, put together a condom manufacturing project in Russia, in Siberia. And we looked at a lot of old, run-down, half built, would-be factory warehouses that were rusting out in various places and had never come to anything, and then ultimately decided it wasn’t going to work in Siberia because you had to import stuff from Malaysia that couldn’t really travel in the weather, and I don’t know, it just… The logistics were too difficult for the manufacturing part. We ended up putting together a company in Ukraine to distribute condoms and to distribute quality condoms. The problem, when we started the condoms in the Soviet Union were very low quality. Basically, they had holes.
Daniel Satinsky: Yeah, there were lots of jokes about that.
Lizbeth Hasse: And we were supposed to—one of the early things we were supposed to do was we got a donation of a whole lot of condoms from Planned Parenthood in the U.K. to bring to Russia, and I think the Russians — and here I do think it was a nationalistic spirit — they weren’t too happy to get these, their health ministry decided they had to test them, and I don’t know what. The rumor was they fed them to rats, and the rats’ eyes got red, and so we couldn’t distribute the condoms. But I don’t know really what happened. But we weren’t allowed to distribute what were perfectly good, high quality condoms.
Daniel Satinsky: And what year was that?
Lizbeth Hasse: I’m thinking that was ’92 [Subsequent note of correction: 1994].
Daniel Satinsky: So, it was after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Lizbeth Hasse: Yeah.
Daniel Satinsky: So, you had to cross national borders between Ukraine and Russia.
Lizbeth Hasse: Yeah. It may have been ’93 [Subsequent note of correction: 1994], and I’d have to check that, too. So, we ended up having an extensive project with the Ministry of Health in Ukraine and Kyiv, and putting together this distribution plant, which operated for some time. I think it did make a little money. It ultimately, I think when it started to make money it was nationalized and Ukrainians took it over, and my client lost his investment. But basically, it was more of a hobby for them. They had some hopes, I think, but it was not, you know, a [tragedy].
Daniel Satinsky: He was the supplier, then yeah, they — But back to the… So, you had been involved with all these Soviet people. Then the Soviet Union collapses. I mean, what were you thinking at that point about the collapse and disintegration of the Soviet Union? Were excited, more opportunities, worried? What were you thinking?
Lizbeth Hasse: I don’t think it seemed like an unnatural step. I mean, it seemed like…you know, you have to bear in mind that although I went to a lot of places, and I actually also at one point drove from St. Petersburg to Minsk in a private car by myself, I was mostly in big cities intermingling with people who had an international viewpoint, and this was an exciting time for them, and it didn’t seem like it wasn’t a natural development.
Certainly Aganbeygyan, who was in our midst, took it in stride. Davlat Khudonazarov, who was on the Duma, and then ultimately ran for president of his country, until that terrible time of that, but during the collapse he was very close with Gorbachev. I think there was serious worry, concern as institutions changed quickly, and maybe collapsed, or radically changed, and what does that mean, but there was enough optimism that I think it was more a notion of change than collapse.
Daniel Satinsky: Ah, okay. That’s a good point.
Lizbeth Hasse: I have always found the idea that the Soviet Union collapsed is something…as a misnomer.
I mean, I had seen a lot of dysfunctional institutions and empty shells, and when we first started working in the hospitals, we had a syphon draining out of the operating arena into the back of a toilet, and they were reusing suture threads, washing them. And so that, to me, is a state of collapse. That preceded this notion of political collapse.
Daniel Satinsky: The political collapse, yeah.
Lizbeth Hasse: So, no, I think to me it was a development, and there were a lot of things to do. I mean, there was a seriousness and concern about friends and how they were doing, and whether they were safe, but they were a little pooh-poohing about it, too, so… You know, I was interacting with people who were forward-looking in terms of change — filmmakers, media people who were just, you know, running to report on the next exciting event.
I remember one time one of the Estonians I had met had decided to do a journalism degree over here at the J school at Berkeley, and I let him stay at my house for a while while he was looking for a place, and then he decided just to go back because he said, you know, really everything is going on in the Soviet Union and there’s no point in being here. So it was…no, it was more of a time of opportunity. I don’t think I thought of it strictly as business opportunity, particularly. I mean, the business thing had always been risky and unstable, and it didn’t seem to be any better. But it was an expanding universe. That’s what it felt like.
Daniel Satinsky: And how long did it feel like that?
Lizbeth Hasse: That’s a good question. I remember being in Germany and feeling… For quite a while. I guess, you know, I did some work in Moldova. That was…
Daniel Satinsky: So at least through ’93, through the bombing of the Duma?
Lizbeth Hasse: Yeah, definitely.
Daniel Satinsky: And after that?
Lizbeth Hasse: And beyond that, I mean, I was always seeing certain things that were developing and improving, but my trips there were mostly concentrated around the medical.
You know, the business stuff, after the condoms and the continuing business stuff, which for me has been in film and media, that’s been conducted on email and remotely. I haven’t needed to go. I mean, once you get these relationships it’s just like dealing with somebody in L.A., really, at that point.
And the trips were to help with the medical project, and in certain ways those became easier. But I think it had to do with our own sophistication, knowing who to deal with in the various ministry offices and district health departments, and having the familiarity, knowing people and going back to see them again. And the country just started to look better. They had the goodwill time in I don’t remember what year that was, and everything got gussied up in St. Petersburg, and then, you know, people were freely traveling. So, it’s not until the travel started to get more difficult, which is very recent.
Daniel Satinsky: Very recently. Let me go back to Mosfilm. So, you witnessed or at least from afar witnessed the real transformation of the film industry as well. I mean, Mosfilm went through bad times, internal struggles, fights over intellectual property, all kinds of things.
Lizbeth Hasse: Fights over buildings.
Also, one of the folks I work closely with has been the programmer for the Russian film festival, first Soviet Film International Film Festival and now Russian International Film Festival for many, many years. And we watched certain changes there, more internal in terms of who’s in charge, and Putin changing, you know, Putin coming in and changing heads of artistic institutions to the dismay of various people. That, I think, was…those are places where we saw change, but it was less focused towards Americans or whatever. And more about internal power struggle.
Daniel Satinsky: Okay. But also, there was a period in which American films sort of dominated the market, both in terms of TV and in cassettes, and movies, and what was it, “Dallas” and contesting with the Mexican soap operas on Russian TV. So, I don’t know if you’ve had any sort of connection with —
Lizbeth Hasse: I was never making deals for Americans over there. I mean, those are established by large, you know, the Warner Brothers and the Disneys. They had their own relationships, and they always had, really.